1 new hall member

Discussions for the Dom DiMaggio League.
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maxthesax
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:09 pm

1 new hall member

Post by maxthesax »

with 6 managers participating, the votes get kind of skewed - but for what it's worth:

Gene Lancellotti is in - a catcher gets some love! 4 votes out of 6

Just missing:
Lynn Marshall and Kelly O'Neil 3/6

also garnering votes:
Chico Vasbinder 2/6
Joe Massey 1/6
Joe Shelby 1/6
Clarence Wainhouse 1/6
Leon LaPorte 1/6
Miguel Constable 1/6
historymann49
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:55 am
Location: New Jersey

Re: 1 new hall member

Post by historymann49 »

I'm one of the two who did not vote for Lancelotti, and I have to say I don't get it. How is he a Hall of Famer?
maxthesax
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:09 pm

Re: 1 new hall member

Post by maxthesax »

because he's a catcher. 10x all star with 8 starts - certainly the best catcher of his generation.
spicoli306
Posts: 428
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:28 pm

Re: 1 new hall member

Post by spicoli306 »

historymann49 wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:15 pm I'm one of the two who did not vote for Lancelotti, and I have to say I don't get it. How is he a Hall of Famer?
As Lancelotti was my former guy, I'll mention that I also have mixed feelings on his Hall-worthiness. I also didn't vote for him on this ballot; although I have before on previous ballots. For me, it is once again a case of a player being used properly once developed (i.e. given the chance to get as many ABs as possible). Sometimes it's better to be good enough for a long time than it is to be great.

That said, Lancelotti's peers that were more HOF-worthy do really stand out as being superior to Lancelotti. Here are a couple:

1) Reggie Bushelman - 13 AS starts, 4 GGs (probably should have been more), 2 World Series rings, his rate stats weren't phenomenal (.281/.356/.454) but they account for a rough 38yo season
His defensive stats are really the most amazing part of his game. He threw out 1278 runners during his career at a 41.3% clip. That was an astounding asset to the KC pitching staff.

2) Eddie Salmon - 6 AS starts, 4 AS reserves, 487 HRs, 1625 RBIs. Defense was never his strong point, but he was passable with a 32.3% career CS%. His rate stats weren't that hot either (.270/.324/..492), but this takes into account nearly a full season at age 20 and a handful of games at 21.

A guy who I don't think is better than Lancelotti, but I do think should be considered despite fewer AS appearances.

3) Bull Curtis - 4 AS starts, 2 AS reserves, 3 WS rings, 8 playoff appearances, 3 GGs, 37.8% career CS%

I think overall, there was a period during Lancelotti's prime that was also a relatively weak time for catchers in our league. So, do I think it was a travesty? No, but I do think he was helped out by coming along at at time that he could thrive (both in terms of playing for a good team and playing a bit better than his fellow catchers).
maxthesax
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:09 pm

Re: 1 new hall member

Post by maxthesax »

right Spicoli - as I mentioned - giving a catcher some love... the other superior catchers you mentioned didn't make it into the Hall due to managers looking at their overall stats and perhaps not factoring in that they were catchers - probably the hardest position to put up those shiny career stats... (just like all the pundits looking at Buster Posey and saying he is "hall worthy" - put up his numbers as a 1st baseman and... not even close).

Certainly Lance benefited from being the best of his era, and that said era was a weak one for catchers - still, in weighing it all, I voted for him so at least we have some catchers represented in the hall.... it's kind of like the RP voting... hard to determine their overall worthiness when one or two bad outings per season can skew their era (due to minimum innings pitched), and doubly hard when you factor in SD's added last at bat incentive.
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