Washington/Milwaukee trade

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Todibus
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:03 pm

Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by Todibus » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:40 pm

Trade #1545131 has been completed between the Milwaukee Otters and the Washington Bullets. The Washington Bullets receive Dave Miller, Ozzie Albies, Adrian Miller from the Milwaukee Otters in exchange for Sonny Singer, Chuck Bilyeu.

It would be interesting to hear from the owners of these teams on this, what seems to me to be a wildly lopsided, trade. In particular, what's in it for Milwaukee.

chuckymanfreedy3
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by chuckymanfreedy3 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:02 pm

Would love to hear other owner’s opinions, but I don’t think it’s lopsided at all. I shopped around all three players to a bunch of teams for similar offers, and they were all rejected.

The way I see it, I get a future A+/B+ pitcher and Singer who, at worst, is a bench bat. I have reason to believe he’s high in all of his grades except arm, so he most likely ends up a better offensive player than Adrian Miller. Additionally, it opens up spots for me to play my younger guys.

I don’t think Adrian Miller is worth much with an A+/C+ (read: waiver wire) split vs. righties. His defensive grades also aren’t good enough for an everyday SS. Ozzie Alvies and Dave Miller are good, young players. But I’d rather have a 21 year old pitcher who has a shot at A overall than them two, especially when the age aligns better with/to the timeframe I should be competing.

Essentially, I give up a guy I believe is significantly overachieving (Adrian Miller) for a guy that will probably out-perform him in his peak (Singer) who better fits the age of my team. And I give up two young, good players for a future 2/3 pitcher who also better fits the age of my team. All things considered, not a bad deal in a buyer’s market.

What, exactly, was your problem with it? Was it really so egregious that it merited a public post rather than a private message to hear my thoughts?

jrthecrusher
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:58 am

Re: Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by jrthecrusher » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:07 pm

Singer is pretty far along in just about all of his grades(I've been tracking him since I drafted him like I do with all my players). He's pretty much a B+/B- and A-/B- hitter. Say he gets to all of those by next season, he has high A-/B and A/B potential(or better with some luck). Nothing spectacular by any stretch but that sure looks a lot like a tighter version of Adrian Miller's splits.

Bilyeu on the other hand seems like a pretty good bet to reach A+/B+. Probably only A- OVR, which figures to be a #3 starter(again, with luck he could get to A). Pitchers like that don't just fall out of trees. Albies and Dave Miller are both solid bats, starters on most teams and they have a little bit of upside, but they pretty much are what they're gonna be.

Calling Singer for A.Miller a wash, Bilyeu for Albies/D.Miller passes the sniff test for me.

Milwaukee gets a SP to slot in behind Garcia, a bat that fits his timeline better than any of the 3 being traded, more ABs for developing players and as a bonus a better shot at near-future 1st overall picks. Washington trades from SP depth to add bats with years in an AL where most of the teams in front of him are heading for hard declines in the coming seasons.


Seems pretty win-win to me.

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bradyo22
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Location: Idaho

Re: Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by bradyo22 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:22 am

I think Singer will be an off the bench player for all of his career, so I may have asked for a little more for the trade.

Ultimately I think it is ok, as long as Milwaukee feels good about the trade.

chuckymanfreedy3
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by chuckymanfreedy3 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:52 am

bradyo22 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:22 am
I think Singer will be an off the bench player for all of his career, so I may have asked for a little more for the trade.

Ultimately I think it is ok, as long as Milwaukee feels good about the trade.
I do feel good about it. At the end of the day, I made multiple offers throughout the league offering the same three players. This was the best value I was able to get for them. While, in some situations, I’d hold onto players if I thought the league evaluation was too far below what the market return should be, I’m happy with this deal.

jbk
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 12:26 pm

Re: Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by jbk » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:28 pm

As a card carrying member of the American League I hate to see Washington getting so much better right away but I think Minnesota makes a fair case for the trade. I just wish I would have gotten the offer. The "crusher" makes the point that Washington has made great strides the past couple of years and can use the three players they got to compete for the playoffs next season as Detroit, among others, lamentably sink into the sunset. Minnesota is in for a long rebuild and none of the three players they gave up will do much to help. I don't think Bilyeu is a future A+/B+ but he's worth a gamble. I do think Minnesota should have gotten more but I don't think the imbalance is egregious.

shackerly
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by shackerly » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:48 pm

It sounds like Milwaukee initiated the deal. The 3 hitters that Washington recieved are all under 30. In my opinion, hitters reach the peak between 29-33. So those guys should get better and will have some all-star seasons between them. Sisler won't ampunt to much more than a back up. The pitcher was drafted with a "d+" in control. Usually, those guys don't have stellar careers. However, we have a newer minor league system and this particular pitcher seems to be striving well and seemed to be the player that Milwaukee wanted to bolster a future rotation. I think that another piece would have made sense for Milwaukee, but again they initiated the trade and makes valid points as to why they wanted the players they recieved.

I've been in this league since the original draft in 1950. I think that I'm the last original owner from 1950. We have never had a trade questioned before on the forum and I think that it's ok for that to happen. This league has very little open communication and if this gets owners involved, I think that it makes the league more intetesting.

On another note, if the Cleveland Rocks fail to make a run in the championship series...they are getting blown up.

chuckymanfreedy3
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:43 pm

Re: Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by chuckymanfreedy3 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:54 am

Interesting comments by jbk and shackerly.

To jbk - I think he has a better chance of making A+/B+ than not. He’s only OS21 and would need (at most) 16 improves to velocity/control to bump each up two grades. Over 8 seasons, taking him to OS 29, if he averages two N each, he hits A+/B+ and either A or A- overall. I think is likely, but he could always get unlucky.

To shackerly - agreed that guys that start off with D+ anything aren’t ideal, but it’s a moot point now. It doesn’t matter where the grades started, it matters where they are now. It obviously has no bearing on how to determine a player’s current value. I wouldn’t have made the deal if he was still that B/D+ OS18 pitcher, but he’s gotten super lucky in his improves, and now projects (for me) as a 2/3 starter.

shackerly
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:28 pm

Re: Washington/Milwaukee trade

Post by shackerly » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:24 pm

Essentially your saying the same thing that I said. He has grown well. I guess, my explanation of my thoughts of the trade were directed to the owner that brought up the trade as being lopsided. You don't need to keep defending your trade, I don't think any owner is getting taken advantage of.

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