Shame on you!

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DeepThreat
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:12 pm

Shame on you!

Post by DeepThreat »

I took a look at the trade news for this season today, and I've noticed no fewer than 4 veteran owners taking massive advantage of an inexperienced owner in recent trades.

5/19/2031

Trade #1567334 has been completed between the Seattle Kings and the Philadelphia Ramblers. The Philadelphia Ramblers receive Doug Davis, Draft Pick - 2032 Round 3 (SEA) from the Seattle Kings in exchange for Paul Cargo.

This is Philly getting a younger, better pitcher than Seattle received... AND a draft pick at or close to the top of the 3rd round in the upcoming draft. It isn't as bad as what I'm going to point out, but still very bad. It's certainly a great haul for a guy that isn't as good as half the guys available on the waiver wire. But I bet you didn't think twice about accepting, did you NP?

5/8/2031

Trade #1566862 has been completed between the Seattle Kings and the Tampa Bay Sun Rays. The Tampa Bay Sun Rays receive Pearce Walter, Johan Hader, Vacini Paulo-Von, Draft Pick - 2034 Round 1 (SEA), Draft Pick - 2035 Round 1 (SEA), Draft Pick - 2034 Round 2 (SEA), Draft Pick - 2035 Round 2 (SEA) from the Seattle Kings in exchange for Jack Beard, Greg Ferry, Clyde DeHaan.

This is an example of grossly taking advantage of an inexperienced owner. Not only does Tampa get the best player involved in the trade (Pearce Walter), but they get what will most likely be #1-2 overall picks for consecutive years! Not to mention the #17-18 picks for those same years. All for essentially one solid pitching prospect and two future backups. Any veteran owner would know that Seattle would have the chance at drafting far superior players with those 4 picks than they received here. Chicago13, I'm surprised that you, of all owners here, would accept this grievously one-sided trade... having been a victim of such trades in the past.

5/8/2031

Trade #1566828 has been completed between the Boston Beanitos and the Seattle Kings. The Seattle Kings receive Mike Adams from the Boston Beanitos in exchange for Carter Dunn, Draft Pick - 2033 Round 1 (SEA), Draft Pick - 2033 Round 2 (SEA).

This deal is every bit as bad as the second trade listed here, and for the exact same reason. Seattle gets a SP prospect who might turn into a middle-rotation type in a few years... while trading away both a superior SP and what will probably be the #1 and #17 draft picks for the 2033 draft.

4/18/2031

Trade #1565968 has been completed between the Seattle Kings and the New York Americans. The New York Americans receive Aston Gehringer, Draft Pick - 2032 Round 2 (SEA) from the Seattle Kings in exchange for Paul Powell.

New York receives both a superior pitcher AND what will be the #17-18 pick in the upcoming draft... all for a pitching prospect who might, if Seattle is lucky, turn into a mediocre SP.

4/8/2031

Trade #1565426 has been completed between the Seattle Kings and the Texas Bandits. The Texas Bandits receive Yasuhito Mori, Del Gibson from the Seattle Kings in exchange for Vern Painter.

Texas gets 2 strong SPs, for a single pitching prospect who might live up to the lesser of those Seattle is giving away. Gibson alone should have netted Seattle a stronger prospect or draft pick, nevertheless both of these guys.


Shame on all of you for this! You should all know better than to accept such trades. This is nothing less than blatantly and thoughtlessly taking advantage of and fleecing an inexperienced owner. These moves absolutely wipe out what strength Seattle had, provides them with little in return, and then wipes out any chance at all of them recovering within the next decade. Each one of these trades amount to cheating according to the rules of the sim. The second and third trades listed here are grounds of banishment according to those same rules.

After communicating with the Seattle owner, I have learned that team is being run by an 11 year-old boy who is controlling a team on SD for the very first time. And you guys swooped in like vultures! There isn't much that can be done due to finding this so late after the fact, but I will be reporting it to the admins. As far as I'm concerned, every one of these trades should be reversed. I only wish I'd caught this sooner.

Instead of accepting these trades, each one of you should have rejected them and informed Mateogrande as to why they were unfair to him... then perhaps counter with more reasonable value. Shame on all of you!
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gatkeri
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:56 am

Re: Shame on you!

Post by gatkeri »

Thanks for clarifying. I was wondering why SEA was making the trades that it was. Probably too late to do anything about them.
abarkov
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Shame on you!

Post by abarkov »

Just to clarify, Seattle made the offer to me. I really do not like to trade any pitching let alone young ones. I have sent an offer back to Seattle reversing this trade if it will keep peace in the league. Also that "superior" starting pitcher I received is actually a reliever that will continually tire and get hit hard if used as a starter.
Cleveland Frowns - Pete Rose League
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abarkov
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Shame on you!

Post by abarkov »

Sent the exact same offer back to Seattle and it was declined.
Cleveland Frowns - Pete Rose League
Milwaukee Mad Cows - Goose Goslin League
Pittsburgh Poofy Puffs - Ralph Kiner League
Boston Beanitos - Tim Raines League
Detroit Crankshafts - Ken Griffey Jr League
npstamps
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:09 pm

Re: Shame on you!

Post by npstamps »

As with the Boston trade, I was also offered that deal. But seriously, the pitcher I picked up is 31, granted at 1 time a 1st round pick, but at this point, I'm using him as a serviceable long reliever in blowouts, certainly not an all-star at this point. And a 3rd round pick?? Also not a big deal. The player I sent him is usable with B+ control which he apparently was looking for. I saw it as a "Sure, why not" deal, but nothing as one-sided as you suggest. There is no way to tell who is on the other side of the deal, be it an 11-year old or a 70-year old player. If it were that outrageous, I would have responded back to the other manager before accepting.
ttreese
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:51 am
Location: New Orleans

Re: Shame on you!

Post by ttreese »

Honestly being on the front end of this trade activity it didn't hit the radar that something was afoot. Now seeing multiple trades behind me; it triggers concerns regarding why Sea is making the trades its making. Am questioning both caliber and volume of trades. I'll offer the same trade in return. Honestly I saw the trade good from either end. If I were on the other end I would have asked for an additional pick; 2nd round for sure. I'm good either way as thought getting two decent veterans over a rising young player was going to help me this year but unfortunately my hitting hasn't been there to win consistently. Actually probably got the worst of this trade as I'd rather have a future OS25 B+/A pitcher or maybe better vs the two decent veterans hitting declining years soon. Don't agree with the assumption my young pitcher won't develop; just look at how he has. I think a position can be taken on either side of my trade which for me states fairness of trade; however, had my trade stood alone I don't see it as raising concern. Now that it is mixed in with multiple other trades; all doesn't seem right.

No issue here with your calling out the trades. Multiple questionable trades which would explain a newer and possibly younger player. Now seeing all the facts and trades; not an issue at all for the commish or someone else to step in and sort this out. If in fact the owner is not old enough to be in the league; that's a whole other matter of concern.

I'll offer the trade in reverse as well. I didnt see this as an opportunity to take advantage of another player simply was willing to part with an up and coming pitcher for a couple vets. And in case anyone here states a concern about my young pitcher traded being a round 3 pick; look at how he has been developing. Was hard to let him go. Hope he keeps up the development.
Mateogrande
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:27 am

Re: Shame on you!

Post by Mateogrande »

Hey guys. I'll try to shed some light on the controversy here. I'm Matt (Mateogrande) and I found this site last year and am in my 3rd season in the Duke Snider league. I'm 39 and share the love of baseball with my 11 year old son Jake and he begged me to play so I bought this team to let him manage. I let him try to make trades but he can't accept trade offers from others without running it by me, and I watch what's going on as it's my login and money paying for the games after all. He loves changing the names and faces and all that good stuff and I'm glad to do this with him and keep him off other electronic junk.

I am inexperienced but I've talked with a couple seasoned players and it does seem I haven't placed a premium on the draft picks like perhaps I should. I'll give my rationale on the trades and feel free to critique but even if the consensus is that I'm wrong, I wouldn't ask anyone to undo them.

My team has about a 4 year window before they get competitive. Davis is a 31 year old reliever with a career 4.27 era. Not a difference maker. I traded him and a 3rd round pick for some mentor points. A third rounder right now would get buried in my minors and I felt like would be a negligible pick.

Similar for the Tampa trade. My window opens in about 4 years. Pearce is good today but he won't help me win a championship and winning today doesn't matter. He'll be 33 in 4 years while Hader and Paulo-Von will be retired. To get what I think will be a stud young SP in Ferry takes more than a number 1 so basically I looked at this like 2 number ones and 2 number twos for a young stud pitcher and 2 serviceable bats who can contribute to my team in that same time frame. Maybe I'm wrong. Ferry looks like he'll end up an A/A-. When I search the league there are 4 SP's with that rating and 2 are bonafide all-stars, Engel on Bal and Fisher on KC. The other two Del Gibson who I traded and Holmes on Texas. Since it seems SP is the premier position in the sim, I reached a little for one of the best young starters around. Most of you guys won't trade them.

Same rationale for the Adams trade. Dunn is a 29 year old pitcher with no history of success in the league. He might be a borderline all-star for the next several seasons but that will be no help to me and I could lose him and get nothing in return. No playoff appearances and no prospects in return if I try to trade him as a 32/33 year old. In short he was expendable to me but I could package him with a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder for a sure-fire 1 round SP with clear all-star potential. So in my mind my actual cost was an extra second rounder as I traded a 1st rounder and someone who would not help me for a young stud SP, the unicorns of the league in my limited estimation. Adams should be an A+/B+. Again there are 4 of those currently in the league with 2 being all-stars and the other 2 being solid #3/4 starters in Fuller with Boston and Farley with Pitt.

Similar rationale with Powell. I gave up a solid but not great young reliever who might have helped me for a couple seasons but not been a big difference maker. So basically to me I traded a second rounder for a second rounder who happens to be at the premier position and who with a little luck can become an A+/B starter who can be 4th in my rotation or be my closer for 10 years. Because of that A+ velo at 20 I felt like it was worth it there instead of using that second rounder on a hit and miss prospect which would probably be a decent but not great prospect albeit not a SP. There are 5 current SP's with an A+/B rating, all of which are decent starters and I saw Powell becoming a Toole or Omachi from Brooklyn.

Painter is almost identical to Powell except I see him as a B+/A guy. I traded two good players but they will be no help to me in the long term. I'd rather move them now for a prospect with upside than lose them to age. There are three SP in the league with a B+/A rating. 2 have been all-stars and the other, Howe on Cle is a solid starter with AS potential. I hope to turn Painter into a similar player as Wagner on KC.

Had I not gotten May in an earlier trade and who I foresee as an ace then I may not have made these other trades. Some of the other guys can attest to the fact that we tried to get some of the other young studs as well. May looks like a sure fire AS at B/A+ like Fernandez of Montreal. Possibly a CY contender.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion and sorry for it all. I am helping my son manage. The only reason it came up is that he was proposing some trades and some of the guys were responding a little rough and I thought it would help them understand where those trade offers were coming from. So we are good with the trades even if it seems like we are wrong.

Right now we look to have the following pitching staff in about 4 seasons. Starters May, Doane, Ferry, Adams, and Painter with Dean, and Powell holding down the bullpen. We are a little light on bats but have been trying to get positioned to have a good crop of guys in the same window.

Thanks all and sorry again for the confusion.
abarkov
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Shame on you!

Post by abarkov »

To settle the Seattle/Boston trade I have returned the 1st round pick to Seattle. See trade #1569470.
Cleveland Frowns - Pete Rose League
Milwaukee Mad Cows - Goose Goslin League
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Mateogrande
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:27 am

Re: Shame on you!

Post by Mateogrande »

Because of the controversy and in the interest of transparency, here is the correspondence regarding said first round pick. I'm not opposed to returning it if the league thinks I should. Either way is fine, just want to be aboveboard and let everyone know that there are no hard feelings from this side with anyone.

Sent: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:07 pm
by abarkov

Don't feel bad about taking it back. You will get a very good young prospect with that pick. I am fine keeping Tsuri and the 2nd round pick for Adams. Thanks.
Re: Trade offers
Sent: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:59 pm
by Mateogrande

I can't take back my 1st rounder. I'd feel too bad about that. Nothing to feel bad about on your end. Read my post to the league in the Shame on you thread.
Trade offers
Sent: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:16 pm
by abarkov

Please accept 1 of the trade offers I sent you, I really don't care which one. I just want this over with.
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