Hall of Fame (Instructions/Discussion Thread)

[acnunnally]

I hope everyone is enjoying Memorial Day weekend safely in spite of the pandemic. I figured one thing to do that can be done from any social distance is rev up the HOF election machine! In the continuing effort to get current, we will be balloting for the 2020-2024 retiree cohort plus holdover candidates who received the necessary 12.5% vote to remain on the ballot. Candidates have a maximum of five ballots to be elected. We will continue adding five-year cohorts to future ballots until we are current and go with annual balloting for players who have been retired for five seasons from there.

For those owners who are new to the league and by way of reminder for others, the balloting rules are as follows:

• One owner, one ballot

• 75% of votes required for induction, minimum of four votes (i.e., there must be at least 5 ballots)

• Any player receiving at least 12.5% of the vote remains on the next ballot, with a maximum of 5 ballots

• No limit to number of votes for induction you wish to cast

This string will be dedicated to the presentation and discussion of candidates. There will be a separate voting thread set up immediately after this. Please do NOT cast official votes in this thread and, rather, make any comments for discussion you may have here in this thread. It's entirely appropriate to hold off on voting until you have had the benefit of discussion with the group.

In terms of determining who gets on the ballot, this is based on my own research, previously of all-time rankings and All-Star archives, now (having been through the all-time rankings once) just All-Star archives. If you believe I have missed a deserving candidate, please let me know!

The candidates for induction in the 2020 to 2024 retiree period plus carryovers are:

Position Players

Wally Delsing, CF, BRO (retired 2009)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=7620604
MVP, ROY, 7 x AS, 2 x WSC, 347 HR, 1592 RBI, 1658 R, 2843 H, .795/.350/.445/.280
FGP/162G: 901
Career FGP: 14,401

Rube Wilson, 1B, CIN/WAS/NYA (retired 2010)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=8483618
ROY, 4 x AS, 9 x GG, +182 +/-, 340 HR, .812/.336/.476/.278
FGP/162G: 905
Career FGP: 11,320

Tommy Smith, C, HOU (retired 2013)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=9170481
7 x AS, 402 HR, .771/.313/.458/.259
FGP/162G: 762
Career FGP: 10,635

Jimmy Collins, CF, BOS (retired 2021)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10071164
10 x AS, 3 x WSC, 3 x GG, 382 HR, 461 2B, 112 3B, 298 SB, .835/.353/.482/.287
FGP/162G: 960
Career FGP: 14,386

Red Reddington, RF, ATL (retired 2021)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10175151
MVP, 7 x AS, 2 x WSC, 2 x GG, 412 HR, 1469 RBI, 396 2B, 108 3B, 394 SB, .784/.323/.461/.267, 2 x HR Title
2017 WS MVP (WS-winning, walk-off HR in Game 7; 2017 Series Stats: 3 HR, 15 RBI, 1.431/.528/.903/.452)
FGP/162G: 887
Career FGP: 13,033

Ensign Petersen, SS, PIT (retired 2022)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10175149
13 x AS (10 starts), 5 x WSC, 4 x GG, 2853 H, 401 HR, 1741 RBI, 469 2B, 127 3B, 439 SB, .830/.349/.481/.287
FGP/162G: 980
Career FGP: 15,206

Joe Buford, SS, MIL (retired 2022)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10475050
10 x AS, WSC, 3 x GG, 393 HR, 1523 RBI, 410 2B, .814/.337/.477/.277
FGP/162G: 891
Career FGP: 12,963

Floyd Escobar, C, TB (retired 2024)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10379519
10 x AS (6 starts), GG, 353 HR, 2745 H, 460 2B, 1047 BB, .770/.337/.432/.268
FGP/162G: 798
Career FGP: 13,591


Pitchers

John Steinbeck, SP, BAL/STL/BOS (retired 1989)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=4031147
7 x AS, 2 x K LL, 233-148, 3.63 ERA, 1.29 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 986*
Career FGP: 14,487*

Denny Diaz, RP, BAL (retired 2003)
http://www.simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=6903500
ROY, 11 x AS, WSC, 611 Saves (5th All-Time), 3.44 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 6 x 40 Saves, 14 consecutive seasons of 35+ Saves

Leo Tricks, SP, PIT/MIN (retired 2005)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=7385281
6 x AS, 219-146, 2619 K, 3.51 ERA, 1.22 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 1,041*
Career FGP: 14,988*

Dutch Leonard, SP, BOS/KC (retired 2008)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=7620585
CYA, 5 x AS, 3 x WSC, ERA LL, WHIP LL, 223-147 W-L (.603 W%), 2546 K, 3.13 ERA (18th All-Time), 1.17 WHIP (18th All-Time)
FGP/33GS: 1,050*
Career FGP: 16,129*

Nick Altrock, SP, BOS/NYA (retired 2012)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=9170428
4 x AS, 2 x WSC, ERA LL, WHIP LL, 207-164 W-L, 2543 K, 3.26 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 6 x 200 K, 4 x 20 W
FGP/33GS: 1,146*
Career FGP: 15,803*

Andrew Greschner, SP, MIN (retired 2017)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=9680830
4 x AS (1 start), 2 x K Title, 3 x 20 W Season (consecutive), 8 x 200 K Seasons, 224-157 W-L, 3212 K, 3.27 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 1,151
Career FGP: 18,309

Joe Watson, SP, MIL (retired 2017)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=9555114
1 x AS, 236 W (42nd All-Time), 2765 K, 132 CG (21st All-Time), 39 SHO (11th All-Time), 3.44 ERA, 1.17 WHIP (15th All-Time)
FGP/33GS: 1,090
Career FGP: 18,269

Bubba Mason, SP, BRO/ATL (retired 2020)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10071146
ROY, 7 x AS, 5 x WSC, 209-83 (.716 W%), 66 Saves, 3.19 ERA, 1.13 WHIP (8th All-Time)

Smokey Joe Wood, SP, BOS/ATL (retired 2021)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10175123
CYA, 4 x AS, 3 x WSC, 207 W, 3096 K (23rd All-Time), 3.45 ERA, 1.25 WHIP, 2 x 20 W, 9 x 200 K
FGP/33GS: 1,009
Career FGP: 17,269

Sig Jiminez, SP, MIL (retired 2022)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10175136
6 x AS (3 starts), GG, 257 W, 121 CG, 33 SHO (20th All-Time), 3163 K, 3.21 ERA, 1.18 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 1,110
Career FGP: 18,473

Mike Torres, SP, CLE (retired 2023)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?player ... d=10379502
CYA, 6 x AS, WSC, 226 W, 3058 K, 3.82 ERA, 1.29 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 997
Career FGP: 16,269

Brent Taylor, SP, PIT (retired 2023)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10475090
6 x AS, 2 x WSC, 210 W, 3010 K, 3.84 ERA, 1.30 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 1,003
Career FGP: 15,890

Fred Wainwright, SP, STL/BAL (retired 2024)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10272893
ROY, 3 x CYA, 10 x AS (7 starts), 289-119 (.708 W%), 38 SHO (12th All-Time), 3370 K (5th All-Time), 2.58 ERA (2nd All-Time), 1.08 WHIP (4th All-Time)
FGP/33GS: 1,255
Career FGP: 22,213

Jim Anderson, SP, MIL (retired 2024)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=10379489
4 x CYA, 8 x All-Star (3 starts), 235-132 (.640 W%), 101 CG, 28 SHO, 2879 K, 3.26 ERA, 1.22 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 1,090
Career FGP: 17,239

* HRA/GS for candidates with careers totally or primarily before 2000 assumed to be 0.615 to project career HRA for FGP calculation; HRA/GS for candidates bridging pre/post-2000 extrapolated from available data to project career HRA.

[acnunnally]

So, you may be asking yourself, what does a Hall of Famer from the CCL look like? How should I think about evaluating the players who are up for election? I'm glad you asked...

For position players retiring between 2010 and 2019, the average Hall of Fame line is:

9203 AB, 2632 H, 364 HR, 1490 RBI, 427 2B, 89 3B, 946 BB, 315 SB, .825/.354/.471/.287

This is pretty consistent with the prior two decade inductee cohorts of 1990-99 and 2000-09:

10,133 AB, 2902 H, 369 HR, 1540 RBI, 484 2B, 109 3B, 1051 BB, 379 SB, .820/.355/.465/.287
9766 AB, 2827 H, 356 HR, 1524 RBI, 461 2B, 121 3B, 1022 BB, 405 SB, .830/.358/.472/.290

Interestingly, at-bats and other counting stats, except for HR, trended down in 2010-19. The fewer at-bats may be attributable to increased attention in recent years to match-ups and substitutions in recent years, and fewer at-bats will mean fewer counting stats, all things equal. Rates of doubles and triples were also down slightly. Long ball totals stayed more constant, but this was due to a significant increase in the rate of HR (8.6% increase in HR/AB). Apparently owners are digging the long ball.

For starting pitchers retiring between 2010 and 2019, the average Hall of Fame line is:

240 W, 2886 K, 3.25 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, 3562 IP

Since we have some holdover pitchers on the ballot from prior eras, here's a little more depth on SP HOFer cohorts...

The average lines for HOF inductees from 1980-89, 1990-99, 2000-09, and 2010-19 are:

259 W, 2648 K, 3.60 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 3826 IP
246 W, 2579 K, 3.45 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, 3439 IP
251 W, 2924 K, 3.11 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 3734 IP
240 W, 2886 K, 3.25 ERA, 1.21 WHIP, 3562 IP

So, what happened from 2000 to 2009, you ask? Two words: Wickliffe and Ontiveros. Unquestionably two of the most dominant pitchers in CCL history, these two had respective, outlying lines of:

276 W, 2681 K, 2.85 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 3681 IP
276 W, 3097 K, 2.83 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 4167 IP

When the two of them are removed from their 2000-09 cohort, the average line becomes:

235 W, 2925 K, 3.34 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 3660 IP

This is much more consistent with the trend line.

[acnunnally]

With the addition of the new FGP-based metrics, I thought it would be useful to review the HOF cases of carryover candidates from prior ballots. Here goes:

Position Players

Wally Delsing, CF, BRO (retired 2009)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=7620604
MVP, ROY, 7 x AS, 2 x WSC, 347 HR, 1592 RBI, 1658 R, 2843 H, .795/.350/.445/.280
FGP/162G: 901
Career FGP: 14,401

With 14,401 career FGP, Delsing is very close to the HOF average. His 901 FGP/162G is below average and would rank at about the 11th percentile of HOF inductees. Delsing would be a longevity case. He managed to rack up 2843 H, 1592 RBI, and 1658 R, which are nothing to shake a stick at. His .795 OPS would, however, put him in the bottom decile of HOFers.

Rube Wilson, 1B, CIN/WAS/NYA (retired 2010)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=8483618
ROY, 4 x AS, 9 x GG, +182 +/-, 340 HR, .812/.336/.476/.278
FGP/162G: 905
Career FGP: 11,320

Wilson may actually have almost as good a case as Delsing. His 905 FGP/162G are slightly better, and though he has a lower cumulative FGP, it's worth noting that he was a career +182 in the field -- which earned him 9 Gold Gloves. Although the FGP-based scoring metrics don't take into account defense, those 182 H he took away are MINIMALLY worth 5.6 FGP/H x 182 H = 1,019 FGP -- and that would be assuming they are all singles. In fact, every double he took away with a stab of a smash down the first baseline is worth an additional 2.9 FGP per 2B saved. Part of the reason defense can't be fairly factored into FGP is that infielders (other than C) have a far greater opportunity to accumulate +/- than OF. But +182 is so staggeringly outstanding, it is worth considering Wilson's case. Wilson also had a very good .812 career OPS that would put him near the 20th percentile for HOFers -- again, not taking into account his sterling defense. He's Keith Hernandez with more power and lower OBP to arrive at the same OPS.

Tommy Smith, C, HOU (retired 2013)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=9170481
7 x AS, 402 HR, .771/.313/.458/.259
FGP/162G: 762
Career FGP: 10,635

Even though he was a catcher, Smith is a miss by any advanced metric. The 402 career HR and 7 x AS are bright spots, but the fact remains that he would rank last in the HOF in FGP, FGP/162G, and OPS.

Pitchers

John Steinbeck, SP, BAL/STL/BOS (retired 1989)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=4031147
7 x AS, 2 x K LL, 233-148, 3.63 ERA, 1.29 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 986*
Career FGP: 14,487*

Steinbeck is a bit below HOF standards on FGP-based metrics. He would rank in the bottom 20% for FGP/33GS and career FGP. That said, he compares relatively more favorably to his retirement cohort on traditional statistics. The average line for the 1980-89 SP inductee cohort is:

259 W, 2648 K, 3.60 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 3826 IP

Steinbeck clocks in with:

233 W, 2592 K, 3.63 ERA, 1.29 WHIP, 3527 IP.

Leo Tricks, SP, PIT/MIN (retired 2005)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=7385281
6 x AS, 219-146, 2619 K, 3.51 ERA, 1.22 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 1,041*
Career FGP: 14,988*

Tricks has a FGP/33S that would put him around the 33rd percentile of HOFers, though his career FGP would put him around the 18th percentile. On traditional stats, Tricks falls victim to the Ontiveros/Wickliffe effect for his retirement cohort. Take Ontiveros and Wickliffe out of the conversation, and his 3.51 ERA and 1.22 WHIP hold up decently against the adjusted averages of 3.34 ERA and 1.21 WHIP. Include Ontiveros and Wickliffe, and he's measured against absurd 3.11 ERA and 1.16 WHIP averages. For all SP HOFers, averages are 3.32 ERA and 1.20 WHIP.

Dutch Leonard, SP, BOS/KC (retired 2008)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=7620585
CYA, 5 x AS, 3 x WSC, ERA LL, WHIP LL, 223-147 W-L (.603 W%), 2546 K, 3.13 ERA (18th All-Time), 1.17 WHIP (18th All-Time)
FGP/33GS: 1,050*
Career FGP: 16,129*

Advanced metrics strongly support Leonard's HOF case. His 1,050 FGP/33GS would rank in the middle quintile of HOF SP's, and his career FGP get close to the middle tercile. More importanly, Leonard boasts the 18th ranked ERA (3.13) and 19th ranked WHIP (1.17) in the history of the CCL. Quibble if you like about his 223 career W, but regardless, there is no way the three-time World Series Champion is not a HOFer.

Nick Altrock, SP, BOS/NYA (retired 2012)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=9170428
4 x AS, 2 x WSC, ERA LL, WHIP LL, 207-164 W-L, 2543 K, 3.26 ERA, 1.17 WHIP, 6 x 200 K, 4 x 20 W
FGP/33GS: 1,146*
Career FGP: 15,803*

Altrock's case is similar to Leonard's overall. The differences are a better FGP/33GS of 1,146, which would put him over the 70th percentile among HOF SP's, but a lower cumulative FGP of 15,803 that still puts him above the bottom quarter. Alrock didn't manage quite as low an ERA, but 3.26 is significantly below the HOF average of 3.32, as is his 1.17 WHIP, which ranks 17th all-time.

Andrew Greschner, SP, MIN (retired 2017)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=9680830
4 x AS (1 start), 2 x K Title, 3 x 20 W Season (consecutive), 8 x 200 K Seasons, 224-157 W-L, 3212 K, 3.27 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
FGP/33GS: 1,151
Career FGP: 18,309

Greschner CRUSHES the new advanced metrics. He would rank near the 75th percentile among HOF SP's in both FGP/33S and career FGP. The man had 3212 K (9th All-Time), a 3.27 ERA, and 1.20 WHIP -- all of which rank better than HOF averages. This is a no-brainer.

Joe Watson, SP, MIL (retired 2017)
http://simdynasty.com/player.jsp?id=9555114
1 x AS, 236 W (42nd All-Time), 2765 K, 132 CG (21st All-Time), 39 SHO (11th All-Time), 3.44 ERA, 1.17 WHIP (15th All-Time)
FGP/33GS: 1,090
Career FGP: 18,269

Watson has EXACTLY the SP HOF average for FGP/33GS, he would rank in the top quarter for career FGP. He has the 16th best WHIP of all time at 1.17 and was a CG and SHO machine, ranking 21st and 11th all-time, respectively. Smells like a HOFer to me.

[GM33]

A few position player comments...

Escobar barely got a vote for me. His peripherals are underwhelming, even compared to just other catchers already on the HOF, but his longevity at a premium position,10 AS (including 6 Starts), and throw in a GG, were too much for me to ignore.

Buford's FGPs, both total and per/162GP, are on the low end for me and by themselves may not have gotten a vote... but 10 AS, 3 GG, and an MVP pushed it over the edge for me.

Wilson's defensive dominance was a difference maker for me. I know +/- favors infielders, but if you assume a base hit saved for Wilson's stellar 181 +/-, and factor that into FGP calculation, then his FGPs are in a range that I am comfortable with for inclusion.

Reddington was a tough decision for me. I was on the fence as his FGP career and /162GP were both on the lower ends, but if Hank Carleton got in, I had to give Reddingon a vote also.

By the way, for hitters, my own FGP ranges are 13,000 total and 1,000/162GP is pretty much an automatic vote. 14,000 with 900 is also pretty automatic. With anything under 13,000 total, I have to consider /162GP value and/or other factors (hardware, defense, playoff performance, etc.).

[acnunnally]

Along with a number of total no-brainer decisions, here are my views on what I think are closer calls...

Position Players

Wally Delsing, CF, BRO (retired 2009)

His rate stats definitely don't pop, but his 14,401 career FGP put him around the 50th percentile for inducted HOF position players. Althouh his 901 FGP/162G puts him around the 10th percentile, it's not the bottom of the HOF. He played a defense premium position capably, while picking up ROY and MVP awards, 7 AS appearances, racking up 2843 H, 1658 R, and 1592 RBI, and just shy of 350 HR. He gets the nod from me.

Rube Wilson, 1B, CIN/WAS/NYA (retired 2010)

This is a close case for me. Wilson's defense helps his case quite a lot but falls short of putting him over the top for me. Even assuming half of the base hits he saved would have been doubles, crediting his hits prevented as you would as if he got the hits himself, he would barely scrape past the 10th percentile of HOFers on career FGP. His FGP/162G would get over the 1,000 threshold, which would around the 50th percentile. But given the fact that we are not crediting other HOF infielders for positive defense (or punishing them for negative defense) on the FGP-base analyses, these arguments need to be discounted somewhat. If Wilson's traditional statistics were a bit more impressive -- either on the rate stat or counting stat side -- I could get there. But, as it is, he falls short for me.

Red Reddington, RF, ATL (retired 2021)

Big Red accumulated some impressive credentials -- 400+ HR, nearly 1500 RBI, nearly 400 2B, 100+ 3B, and almost 400 SB. These go along with an MVP award, 7 All-Star appearances, 2 HR crowns. His career rate stats are somewhat less spectacular (.784 OPS), and his FGP-based metrics put him near the 10th and 15th percentiles. But Reddington had an outstanding 10-year peak. From 2011 to 2020, he terrorized the NL and his AL opponents in the World Series. His average regular season line during that stretch, even with two seasons substantially shortened by injury, was:

28 HR, 103 RBI, 20 SB, .851 OPS, .346 OBP, .506 SLG, and .285 AVG.

Aside from hitting a WS-winning, walk-off HR in Game 7 of the 2017 World Series, Reddington's career playoff line in support of winning two World Series Championships was off the charts:

116 AB, 5 2B, 2 3B, 8 HR, 30 RBI, 11 BB, 1.019 OPS, .398 OBP, .621 SLG, .336 AVG.

His MVP campaign in 2019 that culminated in an Atlanta WS title in the twilight of Reddington's career was a beautiful endcap to a remarkable run that transcends the aggregated sum of its parts:

29 HR, 113 RBI, 22 SB (in 25 attempts), .928 OPS, .377 OBP, .550 SLG (led CCL), .319 AVG

Under the totality of circumstances, Big Red gets my vote.

Joe Buford, SS, MIL (retired 2022)

Buford's case is very similar to Reddington's, with nearly identical FGP/162G and career FGP. He was a 10-time All-Star at SS and had a very good career OPS of .814, which is just slightly below the average for the 2010-2019 HOF inductees of .825. Buford also gets my vote.

Floyd Escobar, C, TB (retired 2024)

Escobar's FGP/162G is not stellar and would rank near the bottom for HOFers, but his cumulative FGP would put him around the 33rd percentile. He was also a 10-time All-Star (6 starts) at catcher, who managed to accumulate 353 HR, 2745 H, 460 2B, and 1047 BB. Although his career rate stats are not the best, he had a terrific 12-year peak with the following line:

22 HR, 80 RBI, .843 OPS, .360 OBP, .484 SLG, .291 AVG

That's a HOF catcher in my book.

Pitchers

I'll just note here that I've made the case for a number of holdover pitchers who should be absolute slam dunks for induction, particularly as supported by the new FGP-based metrics, so I'm not going to do them the disservice of calling them close cases here. Leonard, Altrock, Greschner, and Watson should all be elected without a second thought.

Leo Tricks, SP, PIT/MIN (retired 2005)

Tricks is a near miss for me. His FGP/33GS puts him around the 10th percentile for SP, and although his cumulative FGP are slightly better -- nearer to the 20th percentile -- his traditional stats and accomplishments don't do enough to compensate.

Bubba Mason, SP, BRO/ATL (retired 2020)

Bubba Mason isn't really a close case either, but his candidacy is a little less than straightforward, so I'm including him here. He spent significant time as a reliever early and late in his career (earning 3 of his 7 All-Star appearances in that role), so we can't get meaningful FGP metrics on him. But they are unnecessary. Across 309 starts and 445 relief appearances, he boasted an other-worldly .716 winning percentage on his 209 W. This goes along with the 8th best career WHIP in CCL history to go along with an outstanding 3.19 career ERA. When you understand the numbers, he's a slam dunk.

Smokey Joe Wood, SP, BOS/ATL (retired 2021)

Some people might turn their nose up at his career 3.45 ERA. That would be a mistake. His career FGP are 50th percentile for HOF SP, and his FGP/33GS approaches the 25th percentile. His 3096 K are good for 23rd all-time, he won a Cy Young Award, and three World Series titles. That 3.45 career ERA and his 1.25 WHIP are not far off HOF averages for SP (3.32 and 1.21). He belongs in the Hall.