MLB Hall of Fame

[tworoosters]

Four new inductees and I'm fine with all of them.

Mariano Rivera - the first ever unanimous entry, there should have been others but as more than one observer pointed out the gap between Rivera and the next best at his position is greater than the gap anywhere else. Rivera's post season numbers are insane, 141 IP in 96 games, 0.70 ERA, 0.76 WHIP, 8-1 with 42 saves, 110 K against 21 walks and of his 42 postseason saves 14 were of two innings. That's more two-inning saves than all other relievers combined in the postseason while Rivera was active.

Roy Halladay - as a Jays fan this was a no doubter, he was the dominant starter of his era, 2 Cy Young Awards, and runner up twice, a perfect game, a playoff no hitter and a fierce competitor.

Edgar Martinez - an advanced stats darling who had one of the sweetest swings of all time, he took a long time because he was a DH and his counting stats were low for HOF but here's the telling stat. - he is one of only 6 players who started their career after WWII to retire with a .300 batting average, .400 on-base percentage and .500 slugging percentage.

Mike Mussina - 18 years 270 wins, 5 All Star selections. Never won a Cy Young, 6 top 5 finishes, never won a ring but I'm okay with him being in the Hall. He's a throwback to the days when pitchers went out every 4-5 days and gave their team a chance and there is little chance we will see another 270 game winner in the "new" MLB. Sabathia has 246 but I can't see him going past this year, Verlander has 204 but he's 35 and would need 4 more years at 16.5 wins per year to make it, Kershaw is only at 153, is 31 and can't stay healthy.

The balloting was a bit odd, to me. I still don't understand the support for Schilling, to me he's Mussina with 54 less wins and I'm really surprised at the lack of votes for Andy Pettite, I mean I guess it's the PED thing but Jeez he won 256 games and 5 rings and got less votes than Todd Helton. I'm cautiously optimistic about Larry Walker's chances in his last hurrah next year as he jumped by 20%, 86 votes. Walker is still almost 90 votes shy but the 2020 ballot only contains one guaranteed 1st year inclusion, Jeter, and so maybe he can continue to grow and jump over the PED crowd to get in.

[4EverGreen]

TR, great write up - and 100% in agreement. Curious how you feel about the steroid boys (Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, et al) and their HoF candidacies.

[dirtdevil]

The case for schilling is pretty simple. 11-2 0.968 2.23 in 19 postseason starts. He’s Mussina with a dominant postseason resume. Mussina also has no signature moments. Schilling arguably has 3. The guy’s an u hinged nutbar but I’d have put him in before Mussina. Walker should have been in ages ago. He’s suffering from an unjustified anti-cookers field bias. Hopefully that fades in time.

Halliday I’m overjoyed about. To me he was a no-brainer. Rivera clearly was. I also firmly believe that Fred McGriff should be in. Bonds and Clemens should be too. They were far and away the best players of their era. Bonds was the best hitter of all time. There are guys in the hall who were suspected of use. There may be guys who are in who were using who weren’t suspected. There were certainly a multitude of pitchers and hitters in that era who were using. If you aren’t going to keep them all out then I don’t see how you can keeps bonds and Clemens out. Both were Hofers before they started using, bonds in particular. I’d keep out guys like McGwire and Sosa who we know used and whos candidacy is entirely dependent on that usage.

[tworoosters]

TR, great write up - and 100% in agreement. Curious how you feel about the steroid boys (Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, et al) and their HoF candidacies.

I think Bonds and Clemons should be in, my thought is they would have been in regardless, Sosa was simply a steroid Ranger, like Canseco and McGwire.

I can't agree that Schilling's small sample post season excellence elevates him to Mussina's level but that's why we have opinions. Also, for me, the sock of Turin doesn't make up for being a terrible human being, and being a good human being counts. Being a good human being is one of the reasons Edgar is in the Hall and Manny Ramirez/Jeff Kent probably won't be.

[dirtdevil]

I hate to play the olden days card but I think the keys disqualify jerks movement ended at Ty Cobb.

It’s an interesting argument. I don’t agree with it myself, as I tend to feel that induction should be based on playing record. But as you said, that’s why we have opinions.

I am curious though-one if the points you made for Rivera (validly) was his postseason record. Yet Schilling’s gets dismissed as small sample size. Given that Schilling has only 8 fewer innings, I wonder why the apparent difference in value for you?

[tworoosters]

I am curious though-one if the points you made for Rivera (validly) was his postseason record. Yet Schilling’s gets dismissed as small sample size. Given that Schilling has only 8 fewer innings, I wonder why the apparent difference in value for you?

Rivera's playoff record is simply the cream on a cake that, as I also stated, proved him the best player in history at his position. Schilling's 133.1 innings are simply a small sample aberration in a career that was nowhere HOF worthy .

Had Rivera's career overall been "good not great" I would not have wanted him in simply for his post season numbers although his playoff numbers are a tad bit more impressive than Schilling's. As an example, to get his playoff ERA down to Rivera's 0.70 Schilling would have needed to pitch an additional 291 shutout innings.

[tworoosters]

I hate to play the olden days card but I think the keys disqualify jerks movement ended at Ty Cobb.

BBWAA Election rules.

5. Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

If you are Ty Cobb voters will see fit to ignore character flaws as they would have with Bonds without the PEDs, Curt Schilling is not Ty Cobb or Barry Bonds, he's not even Dick Allen and Rule 5 kept him out.

[dirtdevil]

Racism and voter pettiness kept Dick Allen out. I don’t know that I’d vote for Schilling, if I had one, but I don’t think I’d have voted for Mussina either. I do tend to feel like they either should both be out or both be in. The postseason should matter some in the consideration, small sample size or not.

I will also say that Harold Baines is a ridiculous addition.

[tworoosters]

I will also say that Harold Baines is a ridiculous addition.

Really nice guy though, so he's got that going for him