Questions about trading

Discussions for the Bob Horner League.

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Johngarm70u
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:46 pm

Questions about trading

Post by Johngarm70u » Wed Apr 29, 2020 2:45 pm

No hidden meanings. Just wandering how others go about trades. Do you stick to.a.certain value for trades? Is that value only contingent on giving up players or when you make offers? Do you just try and get the best offer? Does it change depending on the situation or player you are dealing with?

I was asked by private message by an owner from another league why my counter trade offers to them were so hard conpared to giving other owners better offers?

At first I just said to myself, "whatever" but had to really think about it. My answer is actually that I do make offers to some that are better for them than others. Here I think is why.

1. Have they made a trade with me that was easy and fair. Maybe even a little lopsided in my favor? If yes, I have given the same and find myself only going after fair trades. Sometimes to my detriment.

2. Were they hard to deal with when selling off players when rebuilding or competing? Did they IMO overvalued their players? I hold a grudge and will only trade if they give up similar offers they wanted when in the same situation. This never ends up being a trade partner.

3. Were they nice and fun to talk to? Of yes I tend to trade easier

4. Were they trying to tell me what was in my best interest? That one is tricky but I have noticed some owners do this in a certain way and it works. I have actually learned this way. Some owners try and use their knowledge and "expertise" to try and make you trade. The first I trade with generously. The second could offer things I want and I usually tell them to take a hike. Just as a side note. They almost always send you a message when you trade to someone the player(s) they wanted how their offer was better.

5. I personally tend to trade easier when rebuilding then competing and giving up prospects. I should be more invested in players that have played for me for years but I don't. I have seen owners that are the opposite.

I guess what I want to know is how you stand on the trading front. Not to use it in negotiations but just curious how my thoughts are similar or different. In the message I received the owner always needed to win and have the trade lopsided in their favor. So I personally need the same to trade with him now. We will never see eye to eye. Thoughts?

BigMacAttack
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:53 am

Re: Questions about trading

Post by BigMacAttack » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:25 pm

Interesting topic
For me there are definitely certain owners who I check their rosters first whenever I'm looking for something. Usually it's because I have a history of making what I think are reasonable deals wth them. The people that I have not had as much success making deals with I don't tend to check as much but whenever I'm looking for something specific I will go through every roster in the league. I also routinely check the trade desk too.

As far as the offers I make to different owners - I'm not sure. My trading philosophy tends to be more of having an idea what I'm willing to give up to make something happen or if I'm after a particular player. I always try to make the deal something that I think would make sense for the person I'm offering it to, but it's probably not as far as I'm willing to go on an initial offer.

I try never to give up more than I'm willing to give up to make a deal, but I guess sometimes to get something specific I might. I think sometimes especially when I'm rebuilding it's what the best haul I can get, so sometimes it seems like a loss but in this league it is often a buyers market when it comes to moving older assets.

4EverGreen
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: Questions about trading

Post by 4EverGreen » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:52 pm

Hard to answer this definitely because 1) everyone has their own style and preferences 2) trading is more art than science (IMO) and 3) value is a very subjective and relative term!. Personally I ALWAYS provide an explanation for a trade decline and I ALWAYS provide a reason (and my perspective) for a trade offer. On the latter am I selling? Perhaps. But I do try to be objective and fair. And the owner interactions when dealing are one of the aspects I enjoy most about this league. The new owners have brought a new level of interest and activity so thanks for joining the BHL...and being active!!!

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Hamilton2
Posts: 1186
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:56 pm

Re: Questions about trading

Post by Hamilton2 » Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:40 pm

I hope it wasn't me! LOL

I genuinely try to propose win-win trades to folks. I try to think about the offer from their perspective first and wonder what they would want to get a deal done. I also don't usually offer my best offer out the gate (if I do, I try to include that comment in the trade details, "hey, just trying to get something done in a hurry, this is what I would pay for X").

There are definitely some owners who I play hard ball with and I won't take offers from them unless I feel that I'm "winning" the deal slightly.

There are definitely other owners that I'm willing to be a little lax on value with because I know they will return the favor in a few seasons.

I don't hold grudges. I have short term memory on trades and I'll deal people based on the value offered and team fit before I even look at who the opposing owner is.

Also, everyone on my roster, and every pick in my cupboard, is "on the block" at any given time. No one is untouchable.

dirtdevil
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:48 pm

Re: Questions about trading

Post by dirtdevil » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:08 pm

now this kind of stuff we can talk about all day!

I guess my answer is, it depends. When i'm selling, I have a value on my guys and I generally won't waver much from that. The higher value the asset has, the less flexibility i'm willing to have, and i'm also less flexibile at the begging of a tear down. For me the sale of that first top asset in a tear down sets the tone for the entire thing, so i'm far more willing to move off my value for a declining #3 SP than I am for a 28 year old A overall top of the rotation stud. I am generally more willing to move a bit farther off my value when i'm buying, and especially if i'm contending and need a piece. I would like to say that i'm completely egalitarian in that but if i'm being honest, i'm probably more willing to overpay with a trade partner I have a good working relationship with.

I like to keep all doors open as much as possible, and will make an offer to or accept an offer from anyone. I do find though that my valuations simply match up better with some owners than others. I mean no judgement by that, it just is what it is. I find that this means that I tend to make more deals with certain owners than others, and in a situation where i'm looking at acquiring something that I can get from multiple teams, I tend to start with the guys I know I can get things done with sooner. So I find that I tend to make more deals with, say, Bigmac or Hamilton than I do with Roosters or Green. I've made deals with all of them, but it's harder for me to find traction with the latter two guys. i'm sure they'd say the same of me. sometimes how you view player values just doesn't match up well. I do try not to burn any bridges.

when i'm sending an offer I will most often include an analysis of my thoughts s to why the offer (imo) works for both parties and why. I do this (a) to try and show that I've put some thought into this an so if our valuations don't match i'm hoping the other person understands it's a difference of opinion rather than me trying to rip someone off; and (b) in the hopes that if the offer isn't accepted they will respond in kind so that I can better understand what their thought process is so to make future offers better received. I often try to tailor my offers specifically for the valuating style of the person on the other end, (although that works better on the football side where there are more positions in play) and the more information I have, the more effective I can be with that.

finally, I do try to make some adjustments for the trade market of the individual league. I won't go from 3-piece valuation to 1, but I might go to 2 1/2 or even 2 in some extreme cases.

Johngarm70u
Posts: 574
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:46 pm

Re: Questions about trading

Post by Johngarm70u » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:59 pm

Hamilton2 wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 9:40 pm
I hope it wasn't me! LOL

I genuinely try to propose win-win trades to folks. I try to think about the offer from their perspective first and wonder what they would want to get a deal done. I also don't usually offer my best offer out the gate (if I do, I try to include that comment in the trade details, "hey, just trying to get something done in a hurry, this is what I would pay for X").

There are definitely some owners who I play hard ball with and I won't take offers from them unless I feel that I'm "winning" the deal slightly.

There are definitely other owners that I'm willing to be a little lax on value with because I know they will return the favor in a few seasons.

I don't hold grudges. I have short term memory on trades and I'll deal people based on the value offered and team fit before I even look at who the opposing owner is.

Also, everyone on my roster, and every pick in my cupboard, is "on the block" at any given time. No one is untouchable.
Definitely not you. lol You always are very straight forward with what you need in any trade. I either think it's fair or, for me, its too much and I pass. I actually really appreciate this approach. We have made it work in the past and there are times when it doesn't. Getting the best in a trade for your team doesn't bother me.

FrosteeTBear
Posts: 1199
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:25 am

Re: Questions about trading

Post by FrosteeTBear » Thu Apr 30, 2020 12:07 am

In this league with our loss penalty, you always have to think about the trade affecting
your team to the point that you can't win at least 55 games--and after that I have been burnt
giving up my 1st round pick so many times (which is usually one of highest picks) that I sometimes
don't accept a trade that maybe I should have.

Beyond that-- 1) is this a trade that will make my team better......either now or in the future
2) is this trade a fair trade--my pet peeve is players who prey on young owners--
we don't have any of those here
3) with the injury factor--can I lose a few players--and still have decent back-ups

And otherwise, I am completely open--sometimes I don't discuss trades too much that I don't accept
because I am addicted to the game--better this than other things--LOL...…….and I am playing in
numerous leagues--but don't spend 24 hours here--LOL--so have to get rolling along...…………... :D

lordlau1
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:40 pm

Re: Questions about trading

Post by lordlau1 » Thu Apr 30, 2020 4:11 am

I try and focus on trades that meet my core age group or increase my minor league talent. The other trades I do is when I sell off older players to contenders or grab older players to try and win games for the short term.

4EverGreen
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: Questions about trading

Post by 4EverGreen » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:47 pm

dirtdevil wrote:
Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:08 pm
now this kind of stuff we can talk about all day!

So I find that I tend to make more deals with, say, Bigmac or Hamilton than I do with Roosters or Green. I've made deals with all of them, but it's harder for me to find traction with the latter two guys. i'm sure they'd say the same of me. sometimes how you view player values just doesn't match up well. I do try not to burn any bridges.
DD, I take no offense to your comment BUT I didn't realize I was in that "category". I'm gonna have to change that! I believe I am "one of" the more active traders so frequently find trading partners but I'll have to look back to see how many deals we've consummated. Anyway, all in good fun!!! :D

4EverGreen
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:29 pm

Re: Questions about trading

Post by 4EverGreen » Thu Apr 30, 2020 7:13 pm

So I had to check. I went back 5 seasons (including this year) and have made 16 trades with the following teams:

3 - Brooklyn
2 - NY, Phil, Chi, Det & Tex
1 - LA, Clev & KC

So I've traded with 60% of our current ownership (however, I'm sure I've made and received offers from everyone).

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