Reflections on the Wheel Draft
Moderators: BigRich, mhollidaze
Reflections on the Wheel Draft
The wheel draft was first put into effect here in the BWL in the 2013 season and completed it's first cycle of every team having the 1st pick once after the 2028 season draft ran. In 2029 the second cycle of the wheel started and will not end until the 2044 season draft is over. So if we wanted to change it in any fashion we would need to decide at least 5 seasons ahead of time to be fair to everyone and I would certainly think never have a change occur during a wheel cycle until everyone had their picks as assigned. (You might decide though in season 2040 or even now for example that beginning in the 2045 season we might want to implement a change. I thing that would work.) Lets first look at what the wheel was intended to do though before we think about making any changes or just keeping it as is though. The wheel was intended to accomplish the following:
1. Eliminate tanking.
I think the wheel does that fine and it was the biggest reason we wanted the wheel. (We probably should have implemented the wheel in 2013 differently in hindsight though. It was done by random selection then rather than a weighted selection which would have placed teams that were down with higher picks sooner, so several teams that were down stayed down longer than they needed to. Hindsight is perfect, but that is water under the bridge and does not effect us now.)
2. It was also thought that the wheel would eventually bring parity to the league with several teams each year fighting for the playoff spots and eliminate the super teams. I think it has done that pretty well too. The last few seasons several teams have competed for a playoff spot late into the season. And there have been fewer super teams. Many times a team has had great pitching but lacked hitting, or vice versa. So I think the wheel has helped parity some. Though we all know that not every draft is the same and that can affect parity. I could have the 1st pick and there could be 3-4 good players to draft no. 1 but no great player truly worthy of the 1st pick. The next season someone might get an all star with their 1st pick. That's just luck. And some teams also benefit greatly when a no. 2 or 3 pick gains greatly and someone else's no. 1 pick seems to gain very little. Also, just luck. And some trades seem to work out more for one team than the other long term. All part of the game.
So the wheel I think has been good for the league. The one thing I do wonder about the wheel though is do teams stay down too long since rebuilding is harder? Would it help rebuilding teams to change how the wheel is done? And is changing the wheel worth doing? And what kind of change would we do? My thought: Instead slotting all the teams into the wheel as we do now from no. 1-16 no matter what kind of year their team has had, should we instead only slot the teams by their draft wheel numbers for the 1st 8 picks and then assign the draft picks 9-16 by their record? This would help the lesser teams a little without having enough impact to make someone tank on purpose. The only bad thing I could think of from this. If you make a trade for a 9th thru 16th 1st round pick, it's actual value can vary. It's going to be a judgement call when you trade for a pick 3 drafts from now, how good is the team I am trading with going to be? That would affect the value of the pick. You are not going to know ahead of time the exact spot the pick will be. But frankly I think doing that would make the managing and trading more interesting and would be not be a problem to most of us. I don't think the wheel is broke, I am just trying to start a dialogue of discussion on ideas that might make it even better. So my question to you is: Would such a change help the rebuilding enough to change the wheel process in the 2045 season or should we leave it alone as is? Also, if you have other ideas on the subject feel free to share them. Early Merry Christmas greetings to all by the way and post your thoughts on the subject when you can. I would like to hear from everyone. Thanks! Rich
1. Eliminate tanking.
I think the wheel does that fine and it was the biggest reason we wanted the wheel. (We probably should have implemented the wheel in 2013 differently in hindsight though. It was done by random selection then rather than a weighted selection which would have placed teams that were down with higher picks sooner, so several teams that were down stayed down longer than they needed to. Hindsight is perfect, but that is water under the bridge and does not effect us now.)
2. It was also thought that the wheel would eventually bring parity to the league with several teams each year fighting for the playoff spots and eliminate the super teams. I think it has done that pretty well too. The last few seasons several teams have competed for a playoff spot late into the season. And there have been fewer super teams. Many times a team has had great pitching but lacked hitting, or vice versa. So I think the wheel has helped parity some. Though we all know that not every draft is the same and that can affect parity. I could have the 1st pick and there could be 3-4 good players to draft no. 1 but no great player truly worthy of the 1st pick. The next season someone might get an all star with their 1st pick. That's just luck. And some teams also benefit greatly when a no. 2 or 3 pick gains greatly and someone else's no. 1 pick seems to gain very little. Also, just luck. And some trades seem to work out more for one team than the other long term. All part of the game.
So the wheel I think has been good for the league. The one thing I do wonder about the wheel though is do teams stay down too long since rebuilding is harder? Would it help rebuilding teams to change how the wheel is done? And is changing the wheel worth doing? And what kind of change would we do? My thought: Instead slotting all the teams into the wheel as we do now from no. 1-16 no matter what kind of year their team has had, should we instead only slot the teams by their draft wheel numbers for the 1st 8 picks and then assign the draft picks 9-16 by their record? This would help the lesser teams a little without having enough impact to make someone tank on purpose. The only bad thing I could think of from this. If you make a trade for a 9th thru 16th 1st round pick, it's actual value can vary. It's going to be a judgement call when you trade for a pick 3 drafts from now, how good is the team I am trading with going to be? That would affect the value of the pick. You are not going to know ahead of time the exact spot the pick will be. But frankly I think doing that would make the managing and trading more interesting and would be not be a problem to most of us. I don't think the wheel is broke, I am just trying to start a dialogue of discussion on ideas that might make it even better. So my question to you is: Would such a change help the rebuilding enough to change the wheel process in the 2045 season or should we leave it alone as is? Also, if you have other ideas on the subject feel free to share them. Early Merry Christmas greetings to all by the way and post your thoughts on the subject when you can. I would like to hear from everyone. Thanks! Rich
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Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
Nice thoughts Rich--I am in Bob Horner league and they run a draft lottery with the 4 play-off
teams taking their spots as usual in the draft--and the 12 teams that don't make the play-offs get
a number of balls like the NBA according to your win-loss record...…….if you don't get 50 wins you lose
10 positions--if you don't get 55 wins you lose 5 positions--and then draft is run...…..it seems to work well
and everyone gets their chances...…………………………..
teams taking their spots as usual in the draft--and the 12 teams that don't make the play-offs get
a number of balls like the NBA according to your win-loss record...…….if you don't get 50 wins you lose
10 positions--if you don't get 55 wins you lose 5 positions--and then draft is run...…..it seems to work well
and everyone gets their chances...…………………………..
Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
Love the wheel (this might be my favorite league because of it), it makes trading easier, and the sink to bottom to rise to the top problems that we had (and most leagues have) are gone.
You can go from worst to first to worst here, I am not sure in other leagues that is possible.
I would be strongly against any changes to the wheel, we are one of two brave leagues that use it (we still are the first)...
You can go from worst to first to worst here, I am not sure in other leagues that is possible.
I would be strongly against any changes to the wheel, we are one of two brave leagues that use it (we still are the first)...
The Land of Pleasant Living
Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
I am a fan of the wheel in the current format.
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Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
I don't like the wheel. I feel it penalizes weaker teams. As someone who has only been in the league for three seasons now, I have a question. Was tanking a huge issue before the wheel was adopted? A huge enough issue to adopt a blatantly unfair system like the wheel?
Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
I don't recall it being very bad in this league at the time to answer your question historymann49. There were a lot of owners at the time though in the BWL that had teams in other leagues and found tanking so aggravating they wanted to eliminate it ever happening here in this league too. And after much discussion the wheel was the concept they wanted to try and it was adopted. I just thought to bring the subject up to see how the current owners like the wheel or ways it could be possibly be improved upon down the road when the current wheel cycle runs out and would be due to start over again.
Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
It was pretty bad here with one team who as a reward ended up with the best pitcher in the history of the league (that owner is no longer here), and honestly the owner that suggested the wheel is no longer here too.
The Land of Pleasant Living
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Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
I'm content to go along with what the majority decide. I just don't like the wheel. I'm in another league that uses the wheel and it actually benefits me because I have a very good team. We won the pennant last season and had the 7th pick. But, I still don't like it. Just my opinion.
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Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
I actually agree with you...........but I have a real reason now--my team Kansas City will be stuck in the cellar forhistorymann49 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:22 pm I'm content to go along with what the majority decide. I just don't like the wheel. I'm in another league that uses the wheel and it actually benefits me because I have a very good team. We won the pennant last season and had the 7th pick. But, I still don't like it. Just my opinion.
a long time because without good draft picks it will take a long time--if ever--for me to turn
this team around...............and I think that is what people don't realize--sure some people
tank but if your team turns ugly, you are really in for a predicament to turn it around.
The best thing I like is a 15-1 minors with a 110 loss penalty, you lose two draft positions if you have 110 losses so
it gives you a little incentive from tanking completely....................
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Re: Reflections on the Wheel Draft
Glad you mentioned the 110-loss penalty. I find that very unfair as well, and it's a good thing they don't have that in Dynasty. I have a team in the Kirby Puckett League that's awful - worst team in the league. They're a lock to lose 120 and it's not because I'm not trying. I don't think it's right to penalize owners who are trying their best just to prevent some schmo from tanking. But, as I said, I'm willing to abide by the majority opinion.